Tulpa.info - metaphysics

what counts as a ghost? because I know a being that goes by the name Miela that haunts me at all hours of the day and who is normally incorporeal

I know you said earlier that you were "half joking" about tulpas being incorporeal

10:35 PM

It seems that the standard definition used is that tulpas are physical human beings sharing someone else's body

10:35 PM

To what degree would you agree with that?

I agree with it fully, but when you're not switched in then you could be considered incorporeal depending on how lenient you are with your definitions

Ah, makes sense

@Deleted User Im really interested to hear wha you have to say!

6:27 PM

I would but probably not right now, since it’s 4:30am

6:27 PM

Definitely soon

6:29 PM

I was goign to sleep at 5am since Friday

1

Hey Leiko!

to my hermetic niggas. do you think there is any solid thought in an idea that tulpas are in a subplane in the astral realm

6:16 AM

i initially thought that the mindscape in a way was a plane, but it would much rather make sense to consider human mentality as a single subplane considering telepathic abilities

not sure if i said that right but itt tulpas n astral planes

,,You got any good working definition of "plane" or "astral plane"?

6:37 AM

,,(bot down this is Shake)

you know its been at least a year since i actually read any hermetic shit but im torn between level of mentality and awareness vs like, spatial area in the mental world

6:42 AM

higher planes being the nature of the divine

@oomfie it's been 5 days. have you encountered an answer to your question in that time? Genuinly curious.

I have some theories myself but I would first like to hear if you've made any progress.

So uhh what's hermeticism?

Hermeticism is a school of thought founded by someone named Hermes Trismegistus who is thought to be associated with the greek god Hermes and with the egyptian god Thoth.

8:12 AM

hermeticism follows a series of sacred texts called the Hermetic Corpus

sounds pretty sketch already, but do go on

it's a spiritual path that follows 7 principles

8:14 AM

these principles are 1 The principle of mentalism The All is mind; the Universe is mental

8:15 AM

2 The principle of correspondence As above, so below; as below, so above

I agree so far

3 The Principle of Vibration Nothing rests; Everything moves; Everything vibrates

8:17 AM

4 The Principle of Polarity Everything is dual; everything has it's poles; everything has it's pair of opposites; like and unlike are the same; opposites are identical in nature, but different in degree; extremes meet; all truths are but half-truths; all paradoxes may be reconciled

Wow yeah this is spot-on so far

8:18 AM

(not being sarcastic)

5 The Principle of Gender Gender is in everything; everything has it's masculine and feminine principles; gender manifests on all planes

Ehhh okay I feel like that could just fall under 4

8:19 AM

What's the difference between polarity and gender, at that point you're just mincing words

Gender is subtly different from polarity in that polarity talks about how things are opposite by degrees. Like, for example you have hot and cold. But that's just words describing temperature. And what is temperature but degrees in one direction or another. Hot and cold are the same. What is hot right now may be cold to something hotter than itself. (edited)

8:24 AM

Gender is different. Sure, you can physically have both aspects of gender, but you can't say that male is the same as female. Not even by degrees. They are different designs. One creates life within and the other inspires life. (edited)

hhheeehhh I can see the distinction being made I guess

two more

8:25 AM

these actually aren't numbered. i've just been numbering them for clarity

8:26 AM

6 The Priniciple of Rhythm Everything flows out and in; everything has it's tides; all things rise and fall; the pendulim swing manifests in everything; the measure of the swing to the right is the measure of the swing to the left; rythm compensates

8:27 AM

7 The Principle of Cause and Effect Every Cause has it's Effect; every Effect it's Cause. Everything happens according to Law; Chance is but a name for Law not recognized; there are many planes of causation but nothing escapes the Law

8:30 AM

The Hermetic teachings are found in all lands and all religions, their appeal is universal. In early days there was a compilation of certain basic hermetic maxims, axioms, and precepts, which were passed from teacher to student, which is called the “Kyballion”. There is a book written by the "Three Initiates" called the Kyballion that you could read for free online if you feel so called. It is a pretty small book, but it does deeper into each principle, explaining them more clearly for you. (edited)

Wow this is excellent stuff tbh

8:47 AM

Aligns 100 % with the spiritual teaching my host has been soaking up for the last two years

8:48 AM

Reminds me of Vivekananda, too

I highly recommend reading that book. The Kyballion holds one of my favorite 'proofs' of GOD. That book along with The Power of Now helped me work through and reverse my depression and change my life. I haven't encountered Vivekananda. I'll have to look that one up.

I highly recommend Jñāna Yoga, available for free on Wikisource https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Complete_Works_of_Swami_Vivekananda/Volume_2/Jnana-Yoga

Jnana-Yoga

hmm i'll definitely check it out and get back to y'all

More importantly though

9:03 AM

The teaching I "follow" is a westernized summary of jñāna yoga (which is also called advaita vedanta, and non-duality)

9:03 AM

Wanna check it out?

9:03 AM

I've got it condensed to twelve sentences

sure

Well more like

9:07 AM

my host Shake does

9:07 AM

Hang on a sec

Personally I subscribe to the teaching that Everyone has their own path. That path is theirs alone to find and follow. And as such I cherry pick from whatever appeals to my inner knowing. Religion is generally a system in place to teach people how to follow one person's understanding of their path. But that doesn't always work for everyone.

That sounds like straight out of the first chapter of the book I linked ^

Nice! Sounds like we'll get along just fine then.

Eep sorry still trying to find that 12-sentence summary clears throat busy with uh other stuff

Oh yeah here it goes

9:26 AM

So I've comp'd this from a YouTube teacher named Roger Castillo

9:26 AM

check it out

9:26 AM

What we're truly looking for is happiness in daily living. The flow of Life will always be a mix of (physical and emotional) pleasure and pain. Human happiness is completely unrelated to the flow of Life. Our unhappiness is always a result of our psychological attitude towards the flow of Life. Happiness is simply the absence of that attitude, which we call "suffering". Happiness is unbroken peace of mind regardless of circumstance. Suffering manifests as 1. guilt and shame, 2. blame and hatred, 3. pride and arrogance, 4. worries and anxiety, 5. expectations and attachment to outcomes. The root cause of all suffering is our false belief in personal doership. All of our thoughts, decisions and actions are really a result of our genetic design and our conditioning through Life. Our feeling of free will is both an illusion and a gift (which remains in place even after the false belief in personal doership falls away). Our own free will is never different from the will of Life. When we deeply recognize this, our attitude of doership and attachment falls away and peace of mind persists on a continuous basis.

hmm. Yes I resonate with most of that. I'll withhold commentary on it for now though as it's well past my bedtime.

9:30 AM

Graceful

Nice to meet you

@Unfastened Belts (tagging marissa over shake with the assumption that shake isn't logged in all the time, this message is for whoever's interested tho.) I am in agreeance with the first three sentences.

Our unhappiness is always a result of our psychological attitude towards the flow of Life.

I agree with this bit, and add: Everything is perspective. Change your perspective to change how you're affected by a situation.

The root cause of all suffering is our false belief in personal doership.

For this one I'm going to need a better description of personal doership before I can outright agree with it. I don't really agree with genetic design as a cause of all thoughts decisions and actions. Conditioning though, definitely. As for the last sentence, it takes more than just deeply understanding something for your brain to rewire itself. The brain has a tendency to fall into a pattern. Whether it's repeatedly berating you for everything you do, or waking you up at a certain time each day. These programs take time to dismantle and will daily intrude upon your thoughts until time and attention is give towards reprograming them. I experienced this personally when dealing with depressive thought patterns and other mental habits. It is one thing to have book-learning and another to have experiential learning. Anything I didn't touch upon I simply agree with.

2:18 AM

sorri about the wall of text. (edited)

For this one I'm going to need a better description of personal doership before I can outright agree with it.

According to this framework, the belief in personal doership essentially manifests as psychological thoughts in these forms: "I'm a failure because I could and should have acted differently in the past, and if I don't improve in the future, I'll also be a failure." "I hate you because you could and should have acted differently in the past, and if you don't treat me better in the future, I'll hate you." "My completeness/happiness is to be found in pleasant future circumstance, because pain subtracts from who I am, and pleasure adds to who I am."

2:59 AM

I don't really agree with genetic design as a cause of all thoughts decisions and actions. Conditioning though, definitely.

One of the "non-dual" aspects of these teachings is that they say both are true, they're "not two". Nature "is" nurture. The sperm and the egg meet, the genetic design of the organism is created by life in the form of DNA, and in every moment afterwards, life grows, shapes, conditions, lives the body/mind organism resulting from that union

3:06 AM

As for the last sentence, it takes more than just deeply understanding something for your brain to rewire itself. [...] These programs take time to dismantle and will daily intrude upon your thoughts until time and attention is give towards reprograming them. [...] It is one thing to have book-learning and another to have experiential learning.

I essentially agree with this. Roger Castillo also describes liberation (the end of suffering) as a rewiring of the brain. The belief in personal doership is put in place by life around the age of 2.5 - 3 when the child learns language and how to conceptualize. "I am this, I need that." The belief is reinforced by social conditioning throughout life unless life delivers new conditioning (for instance, these teachings) in order to undo the old conditioning, which is based on a misperception of our true nature. The point is that the organism can't "do" the brain rewiring. The process is automatic (our genetic design being subjected to new conditioning). The organism moves towards what it finds pleasant, meditation, teachings, LSD, etc. However, all of those are just "means towards an end" of understanding (not conceptually, but experiential understanding as you put it) that we are not in control of life and the outcomes people's actions have, including our own, and that our happiness/completeness is not dependent on pleasure or the absence of pain. Happiness is when guilt, blame, worries, expectations, regrets fall away, and peace of mind remains regardless of circumstance. But this is just a description of what's theoretically available (and why), not a "prescription" for a psychological entity to "make happen"

3:06 AM

@Lusovius plenty capable of my own walls of text

3:06 AM

excellent. at least that gives me something to read in this lonely channel

:)

" change your perspective to change how you're affected by a situation" I like this.

Thank you. Me too.

Sadly, it's not always so easy for an individual to change their perspective. It's something that definitely requires familiarity in the doing.

Way the framework would put it, is that you can't change your perspective, life changes your perspective through new conditioning in each moment

Ah the age old question of am I really in control or just a puppet on a string being nudged this way and that.

Yeah

Framework says they're "not two", we have a feeling of free will that's always a component of our experience, but there can be a deep understanding that our free will is completely determined by our design and conditioning

4:26 AM

We're complex biological and emotional robots designed by evolution

What is this framework that you are referincing?

Non-dual teachings (called advaita vedanta or jñāna yoga in Hinduism) as summarized by Roger Castillo

I have also a lengthy response to your lengthy response that i'm polishing

Nice

I can't say that I agree with the concept of a sentient creature being just a robot. Pending further study of course, as always

The way Roger frames it it's not "just" a robot. It's a robot capable of love, empathy, art, etc

4:30 AM

The body/mind organism is an instrument designed by evolution for consciousness to function through and have this conscious experience we're having right now

That falls outside of the definition of robot that I'm familiar with. I find being referred to as such insulting

Yeah we can say "instrument", "vehicle", whatever works. A body/mind organism through which consciousness functions

4:32 AM

Consciousness is defined in this teaching as formless awareness coupled with the impersonal sense of "I am"

4:34 AM

Really what it's saying is that the organism is created and shaped and moved by life, is never separate from life, and any psychological concept of "I'm not good enough" is completely irrational

I can more align with the belief that this structure of bone and muscle (and even my own consciousness as it is) is a vehicle being driven by a higher power for the sole purpose of gathering experiences to gift to the one source energy. Ah yes, that sounds more like stuff that I believe in. Words, they are so tricky sometimes. Everyone has their own understanding of the individual meanings. How easy it is to confuse oneself and others. Alas

Oh yeah for sure

4:36 AM

Completely disagree with the struck-through (?) paragraph haha

4:37 AM

Except that the "higher power" is just life, of which we are a component